Clarification on GameInput license

[sanjay900]

I was looking into using GameInput to support GIP based instruments in a bunch of open source games and emulators, and then hit a road block as i can't include GameInput as a dependancy anywhere as the license isn't GPL compatible.

microsoft/GDK#72

Is there a reason why GameInput uses such a restrictive license, especially when it seems like its goal is to become an input library that is used everywhere?

I just got SDL supporting some GIP instruments, but now i can't include an updated copy of the GameInput headers when building GPL software, so i can't utilize those changes anywhere, which is unfortunate.

Noting that older versions of the game input headers came with the windows SDK and thus were not bound by the license file in this repository, it would be good if game input, or even just its headers were licensed by MIT or something so they can be used easily.

[sanjay900]

If anything, what would be good is clarification on that license agreement: does it only apply to gameinput redist itself, or does it also apply to the header files on this repo as well. If we can link against new versions of gameinput without violating the license agreement and that license agreement only applies to distribution of the redist, that would probably be fine.

Essentially, I want to link MIT and GPL software against the latest gameinput header files, but the terms in the current license agreement on this repo wouldn't really work for that, so I need to confirm if the license file applies to only the redistributable, or if it also applies to the include files as well.

If it's possible to get the include files put under a less restrictive license so they can be used for building GPL software that would solve the problem - if that's already the case and that could just be clarified that would be good.

[sanjay900]

@falpizar99 is this something you'd perhaps be able to clarify or is there someone that could clarify this?

[sanjay900]

@lsalvadormsft / @AlexYatskov / @josephva-m
would any of you guys be able to clarify this? its kinda a show-stopper right now in using newer versions of game input in a lot of open source software.

[FLY1NGSQU1RR3L]

@lsalvadormsft / @AlexYatskov / @josephva-m would any of you guys be able to clarify this? its kinda a show-stopper right now in using newer versions of game input in a lot of open source software.

Good evening, Clint Woon (Xbox Developer Relations) here. Looking at this with @lsalvadormsft right now.

1. You are correct, the GDK license is not permissive in this regard for use with open source engines or projects like SDL yet.
2. The primary intention of the GDK is to support Win32 games built with the GDK shipping into the Xbox store.
3. There ARE a subset of cross-platform runtime libraries like GameInput, our cross-platform auth system, etc that allow Xbox developers to save time / reduce friction when publishing their game across different PC marketplaces.

With that said, we're always open to asking for ways to help the dev community and have forwarded this. If I forget that I left a comment on some random Git Issues thread and nobody here is responding, you can find me Fridays @ 11AM PST for Xbox Game Dev Office hours on our Discord (https://discord.gg/msftgamedev) and @me in the channel and one of our admins or community manager will find me.

There, now you know where I live and I promise you'll get an answer, even if you may not be 100% happy with it.

Thanks for your interest in GameInput. I personally think its one of the best efforts to modernize + standardize gaming input on Windows since I started in Windows NT4.0 and it addresses the gaps introduced over the years by layers of solutions tackling shifts in the hardware ecosystem. If we can find a way to make it easier for devs using any engine to use the same input model, it's a win for everyone.

Bring me my Steel Batallion controller. It's time to play...[insert any game here not originally designed to use joystick]

[sanjay900]

Thank you for your response, i am just happy to get any response at all really!

[sanjay900]

@lsalvadormsft / @AlexYatskov / @josephva-m would any of you guys be able to clarify this? its kinda a show-stopper right now in using newer versions of game input in a lot of open source software.

Good evening, Clint Woon (Xbox Developer Relations) here. Looking at this with @lsalvadormsft right now.

1. You are correct, the GDK license is not permissive in this regard for use with open source engines or projects like SDL yet.

2. The primary intention of the GDK is to support Win32 games built with the GDK shipping into the Xbox store.

3. There ARE a subset of cross-platform runtime libraries like GameInput, our cross-platform auth system, etc that allow Xbox developers to save time / reduce friction when publishing their game across different PC marketplaces.

With that said, we're always open to asking for ways to help the dev community and have forwarded this. If I forget that I left a comment on some random Git Issues thread and nobody here is responding, you can find me Fridays @ 11AM PST for Xbox Game Dev Office hours on our Discord (https://discord.gg/msftgamedev) and @me in the channel and one of our admins or community manager will find me.

There, now you know where I live and I promise you'll get an answer, even if you may not be 100% happy with it.

Thanks for your interest in GameInput. I personally think its one of the best efforts to modernize + standardize gaming input on Windows since I started in Windows NT4.0 and it addresses the gaps introduced over the years by layers of solutions tackling shifts in the hardware ecosystem. If we can find a way to make it easier for devs using any engine to use the same input model, it's a win for everyone.

Bring me my Steel Batallion controller. It's time to play...[insert any game here not originally designed to use joystick]

i've joined the discord now as well if you find it easier to tag me on there that works too

[FLY1NGSQU1RR3L]

Thank you for your response, i am just happy to get any response at all really!

Thank @lsalvadormsft . One of the best devs on the planet. Seriously. He truly cares about this stuff and makes sure that his PMs do their job.

[sanjay900]

Bring me my Steel Batallion controller. It's time to play...[insert any game here not originally designed to use joystick]

Seems like we have similar goals, at the moment i'm just trying to get all the guitar hero and rock band peripherals working everywhere, and that was why id opened this issue, along with #25 and #26

Some game engines have pivoted to using GameInput for handling all devices including XInput ones, which has left things in a bit of a state with these peripherals since they aren't picked up properly anymore since GameInput doesn't give us a good way to handle that yet, mostly because it doesn't expose all the capabilities so we can't easily differenciate subtypes yet.

[sanjay900]

@lsalvadormsft / @AlexYatskov / @josephva-m would any of you guys be able to clarify this? its kinda a show-stopper right now in using newer versions of game input in a lot of open source software.

Good evening, Clint Woon (Xbox Developer Relations) here. Looking at this with @lsalvadormsft right now.

1. You are correct, the GDK license is not permissive in this regard for use with open source engines or projects like SDL yet.

2. The primary intention of the GDK is to support Win32 games built with the GDK shipping into the Xbox store.

3. There ARE a subset of cross-platform runtime libraries like GameInput, our cross-platform auth system, etc that allow Xbox developers to save time / reduce friction when publishing their game across different PC marketplaces.

With that said, we're always open to asking for ways to help the dev community and have forwarded this. If I forget that I left a comment on some random Git Issues thread and nobody here is responding, you can find me Fridays @ 11AM PST for Xbox Game Dev Office hours on our Discord (https://discord.gg/msftgamedev) and @me in the channel and one of our admins or community manager will find me.

There, now you know where I live and I promise you'll get an answer, even if you may not be 100% happy with it.

Thanks for your interest in GameInput. I personally think its one of the best efforts to modernize + standardize gaming input on Windows since I started in Windows NT4.0 and it addresses the gaps introduced over the years by layers of solutions tackling shifts in the hardware ecosystem. If we can find a way to make it easier for devs using any engine to use the same input model, it's a win for everyone.

Bring me my Steel Batallion controller. It's time to play...[insert any game here not originally designed to use joystick]

@FLY1NGSQU1RR3L / @lsalvadormsft , did you end up coming up with any thoughts with this in the end?

[lsalvadormsft]

@sanjay900 we are working this request internally but we should have an update for you soon!

[sanjay900]

@lsalvadormsft any updates?